BassIAB 2009.1 Submissions

Paul Warren's picture

Hi all. I've opened this topic for the coming BassIAB 2009.1 submissions. We can add new submissions as comments to this thread and any discussion of the individual submissions could be placed as replies to each comment. Does that make sense? I think that might keep things a bit organized.

Paul Warren's picture

DS_Live_Jam - Pauls Mix

This one turned out to be more about tone, and faithfulness to Dire Straits, than actually playing. I had an idea for the song early on and I decided to just jam using the basic ideas. After a couple of tentative takes I had a line recorded that I liked but I recorded too hot and I couldn't get around the clipping with any combination of compression and EQ so.....

I recorded another take using my Fender P-Lyte with the gain reduced and got a take with an overall tone that I liked. After applying a high pass filter at 80Hz the mix sounded pretty good to me. The bass sits well in the mix. It sounds resonably faithful to Dire Straits in that it's relaxed and fairly mellow in tone. The only problem is there's a couple of minor mistakes which I doubt anyone but a bassist would pick up on. So here's the recording info.

Bass: Fender P-Lyte
FX: SansAmp BDDI & chorus
DAW: RealBand from PGMusic
Details: Recorded in two takes and overdubbed in RB. High pass filter (80Hz) and gentle compression

DS_Live_Jam_Pauls_Mix_Fender

Afterwards I decided to have another try and see if I could get a recording without the minor mistakes. I used my Tunebass to make a recording and this time I got through without any errors and I really liked the way I played. Unfortunately the recording is a little more aggressive than the first one and there's a tiny bit of distortion here and there which might be my battery getting weak. So overall the playing isbetter but the tone and articulation isn't as faithful to Dire Straits. I figured I'd post both versions and see which you prefer. Here's the recording info.

Bass: Tunebass Maniac
FX: SansAmp BDDI & chorus
DAW: RealBand from PGMusic
Details: Recorded in one take. High pass filter at 80Hz

DS_Live_Jam_Pauls_Mix_Tunebass

As alway's I anxious to hear your opinions good and bad. Also please let me know which version you like best. Thanks to all of you for participating.

finally

i finally got a chance to listen to your takes Paul.....both were VERY nice. the line was very true to the Dire Straits sound and i felt you played it quite well in both. good job and i hope i do as well wheni get the time ot sit down and do a line....

------------------------------------------
Greg
Http://www.myspace.com/kybassmaniac
Http://www.youtube.com/kybassmaniac

*and it harm none,do what thou will*

------------------------------------------
Greg
http://www.youtube.com/user/BroknDreamsBand
Http://www.facebook.com/brokendreamsband
http://www.reverbnation.com/brokendreamsband
*and it harm none,do what thou will*

Paul Warren's picture

Thanks Greg. Trying to be

Thanks Greg. Trying to be true to the Dire Straits sound was my motivation here. I glad I was able to get close. I'm looking forward to hearing your recording. I hope you can get some time soon. It sucks when work gets in the way of having fun. hahahaha

Dave Magaro's picture

I'm going to have to drive

I'm going to have to drive to Canada and physically have to twist the EQ at 4K aren't I?....LOL!

Atually Paul they both sounded pretty good. I hate to say this but I kind of liked the second one just a smidge better. Maybe it was just because you played it with more confidence, but that was the one I liked. It just had a little bit more of an edge to it. It just got a bit jumpy at a point or two. Nothing a tweak of compression or fader rider couldn't change. The bass seems to work with the kick which is critical!

Well done Paul!

Dave

Paul Warren's picture

Thanks for the comments Dave.

Thanks for the comments Dave.

[quote=Dave Magaro]...but I kind of liked the second one just a smidge better...[/quote]

When I listen to the two versions through my near field monitors or phones I like the first one better because the fret and string noise is inaudible. On any other speaker system, such as the Boss PC speakers here at work, I like the second one better. I guess near field monitors are too 'honest'.

[quote=Dave Magaro]...Maybe it was just because you played it with more confidence...[/quote]

Yes, it definately sounds more confident. I really felt I'd hit it with the second one. The first one I think I was too stiff and trying to play notes instead of music. I'm starting to realize there's a big difference. It's really the tone differences that made me keep the first one and that only seems to hold for the monitors.

[quote=Dave Magaro]I'm going to have to drive to Canada and physically have to twist the EQ at 4K aren't I?....LOL![/quote]

I think you've mentioned this before but I can't remember what you suggested. Are you saying to cut the 4kHz band or boost it? Does cutting the 4K band get the bass out of the guitars space?

BTW do you think I should have panned the guitars to the sides or is it Ok with everything straight down the middle? The reason I didn't pan the guitars was because I was thinking of a small club where there wouldn't be a lot of separation anyway but I'm not sure if that was the right choice.

Dave Magaro's picture

LOL! I was kind of kidding

LOL! I was kind of kidding about the 4K this time. The bass tone works pretty well with the mix. A boost at 4k will just give the bass a little more clarity. You don't have to add a bunch, just a bump up.

If both guitars were doing the lead work then you want them center. If you were going to pan them it would just be a slight pan The kind where you need headphones to really hear the panning. But, I like lead guitars center. If you get them to one side or the other it really starts pulling your ears to that side during a lead.

If only one guitar was playing through the lead there's a trick you can do with the rythm. You can pan the rythm to one side and put a delay of the rythm on the other side. The delay should be between 10ms-30ms. The human ear can't detect a delay until after 30ms. You want to stay above 7ms with the delay. 7ms and below you will get comb filtering and it will really sound bad. Then just EQ the delay different than the original track. That can really widen a mix. I've done that when recording bands. If you listen to Boston they do that a good bit with two part hamonies. The lead vocal is center and the harmony is mixed like I said to mix the guitars above. If you listen to them with headphones on you can REALLY hear it. It doesn't sound like it's hard panned. It sounds like it's panned about 3 O'clock and 9 O'clock. You can also hear them using an Eventide Harmonizer, but that's a conversation for another time.

Dave

Paul Warren's picture

Hey Dave, thanks for the

Hey Dave, thanks for the great tips. I'll experiment with a boost at 4KHz and see what difference it makes to these mixes. I won't re-post them but the experiment will be interesting.

I like the idea you suggested for rhythm guitars. That sounds like it might really make a great mix. BiaB has some great Stones guitars and I think that would make the rhythm guitar sound great. Make Ronny Wood proud that would. : )

Dave Magaro's picture

This one sounded pretty

This one sounded pretty good. It was some of the earlier ones you did that sounded like it needed brightend a bit. Just something in the presense range which is 1k-5k. I've just found 4k works pretty well for bass. The bass is sitting in the mix nice on these and that's what is most important.

Dave

BoH's picture

Not that great, but....

Here's mine. I kind of threw it together with very little editing or EQ.

Nothing special here. Just my T-40 through a Lightsnake into my lap top.

CLICKY HERE

Bo


You don't love me, you just love my FINGERSTYLE!
Peavey T40; SX/Squier P-bass; Spector Legend 5
Roland Bass 30 Cube

Bo


You don't love me, you just love my FINGERSTYLE!
Peavey T40; SX/Squier P-bass; Spector Legend 5
Roland Bass 30 Cube

Paul Warren's picture

Thanks for posting this Bo.

Thanks for posting this Bo. I really liked it. It sounded very natural just like you'd expect of an instrumental jam.

First off, I had to laugh when you played a couple of notes during the crowd noise before the intro. I did the same myself. Pretty near every bassist I've ever heard live, or in a live recording, does the same thing. I'm not sure if it's for practical reasons such as checking tone and volume or whether it's to let the audience know there really is a bassist back here in the shadows. LOL Either way it seems like we're hardwired to do it. hahahaha

The intro you played (00:15-00:29) is nice. It's similar to what I did but I didn't think of varying the rhythm the way you did. That was a nice touch and worked well.

The line you played over the A part, or verse if you prefer, is nice. The fills, like at 00:46 are especially good. That's pretty tough to play. I tried to get something similar but I'm not fast and smooth enough. I'm going to keep trying to play that part until I can get it close to right.

The little bit of 'pop' at 02:10 was a nice touch. I didn't expect that at all. Unfortunately I think some of it disappeared in the recording. At least my speaker here didn't reproduce it all. Still, I know what you were doing and can fill it in my mind.

The B part, or bridge, is particularly nice (02:38-03:13). You used a lot of range. Really got it going up and down the fretboard. This is my favorite part. There's a lot of really brilliant bits of playing in there. Around 02:49 you play a really cool bit that I still can't quite figure what you're doing. Sounds like you're alternating between an ascending run and the fifth. Anyway it's good.

Overall, Bo, I really liked your version. You sure give me something to work toward. I'd be happy if I could play like you do. It sounded relaxed and natural.

Thanks for participating Bo.

BoH's picture

Thanks

Thanks for the comments, Paul. Sorry I haven't commented on your mix, but my speakers are terrible and I have no good reference.

As for the natural sound of my bass, it's pretty much because I was too lazy to do any processing. The only bit of processing I did was to do a bass boost (400hz) like Dave mentioned to you. There is also a tiny bit of reverb in an attempt to make it sound more "live". I only took about three takes and followed the pattern. As far as the fills go, I just did some of the stuff I do without using my brain--robot mode, if you will--just habits I've formed.

The pop was intentional, I just think that the very vintage tone of the T40 doesn't lend itself well to modern sounding slap and pop work. Perhaps if I'd have run the bass through my MXR pre, it might have sounded more modern (being lazy again).

Overall, I'm somewhat satisfied with the result. Lack of time and a bad computer monitor tend to make for shortcuts, but I haven't been able participate is BassIAB in a while and really wanted to do this one.

I'm glad you enjoyed the cut, Paul. Can't wait for the next one.

Bo


You don't love me, you just love my FINGERSTYLE!
Peavey T40; SX/Squier P-bass; Spector Legend 5
Roland Bass 30 Cube

Bo


You don't love me, you just love my FINGERSTYLE!
Peavey T40; SX/Squier P-bass; Spector Legend 5
Roland Bass 30 Cube

Paul Warren's picture

Considering you recorded

Considering you recorded that using a flashlight to see the monitor I'd say you went above and beyond. lol

Dave Magaro's picture

4k= 4,000 not 400.... or was

4k= 4,000 not 400.... or was that just a typo?

I liked your take a lot Bo! The line worked well with the song and I liked the groove you had going on. In a song like this it's pretty wide open for what tone to use. I just tend to like a little brightness for more clarity. But, that's subjective when it comes to sound. Especially with a song like this where you have a HUGE hole for the bass to sit in. The main thing for a song like this is to make sure it works with the kick drum. That's why most engineers will use a high pass filter on the bass at 50-60 Hz. I go as high as 80Hz. But, I'm getting sidetracked here.

Great job Bo! I really enjoyed it! Well done my friend!

Dave

BoH's picture

You know, Dave. Now that

You know, Dave. Now that you mention it, I'm not absolutely sure about that at all. I'll defer to your expertise in this matter. I suppose before I open my trap I should know more about the subject. Anyway, there is a default bass boost in Audacity that I use. I leave it unchanged when it pops up and hit "OK". At any rate, it sounds better and that's all I can tell you. Thanks for the correction.

As for the bass line, I'm thinking of doing another using my Spector. I'd like to see how the active electronics in that particular bass would sound in this context. Thanks for the input.

Bo


You don't love me, you just love my FINGERSTYLE!
Peavey T40; SX/Squier P-bass; Spector Legend 5
Roland Bass 30 Cube

Bo


You don't love me, you just love my FINGERSTYLE!
Peavey T40; SX/Squier P-bass; Spector Legend 5
Roland Bass 30 Cube

TK's picture

All I can say is...

wow, listening to these were great. While not my 'style' of music I genereally enjoy, it was still very nice to listen to how different people laid down baselines to the same song.

Paul Warren's picture

I'm glad you liked them.

I'm glad you liked them. BassIAB is a really useful feature of this site. Hearing how different bassists interpert the same song gives you real insight into creating bass lines. I've really learned a lot this way.

There should be other submissions soon. Greg and Wheat usually do one so hopefully they'll post soon.

TK's picture

If'n I might...

ask a silly question, what is BassIAB anyways? Short of the physical which I can hear, the name just baffles me.

it stand for

Bass In A Box.....comes form the name of the software used to create the backing track which is Band in a Box

------------------------------------------
Greg
Http://www.myspace.com/kybassmaniac
Http://www.youtube.com/kybassmaniac

*and it harm none,do what thou will*

------------------------------------------
Greg
http://www.youtube.com/user/BroknDreamsBand
Http://www.facebook.com/brokendreamsband
http://www.reverbnation.com/brokendreamsband
*and it harm none,do what thou will*

TK's picture

Thanks

Thanks

Paul Warren's picture

Sorry! I sometimes forget

Sorry! I sometimes forget that acronyms might not be obvious.

TK's picture

I had thought that might be

I had thought that might be what it was, but it didn't make sense in the context (until the software name was brought in) :)

oh yeah.....

I am hoping to do one this weekend.....

------------------------------------------
Greg
Http://www.myspace.com/kybassmaniac
Http://www.youtube.com/kybassmaniac

*and it harm none,do what thou will*

------------------------------------------
Greg
http://www.youtube.com/user/BroknDreamsBand
Http://www.facebook.com/brokendreamsband
http://www.reverbnation.com/brokendreamsband
*and it harm none,do what thou will*

Paul Warren's picture

That's great Greg. I'm

That's great Greg. I'm looking forward to hearing your submission.

BoH's picture

Any new tracks? Come on

Any new tracks? Come on folks, this is your chance to show your bass chops. Get 'em on here!

Bo


You don't love me, you just love my FINGERSTYLE!
Peavey T40; SX/Squier P-bass; Spector Legend 5
Roland Bass 30 Cube

Bo


You don't love me, you just love my FINGERSTYLE!
Peavey T40; SX/Squier P-bass; Spector Legend 5
Roland Bass 30 Cube

i know....

i said i would have one a couple weeks ago....i still am trying to get time to do one,.....

------------------------------------------
Greg
Http://www.myspace.com/kybassmaniac
Http://www.youtube.com/kybassmaniac

*and it harm none,do what thou will*

------------------------------------------
Greg
http://www.youtube.com/user/BroknDreamsBand
Http://www.facebook.com/brokendreamsband
http://www.reverbnation.com/brokendreamsband
*and it harm none,do what thou will*

Dave Magaro's picture

I have a broken wrist, so I

I have a broken wrist, so I have an excuse this time.....LOL!

: )

Dave

TK's picture

owww!

Ok, that sucks man. Hope you are better soon!

As for me, I neither have the skill (yet) or the gear (again, yet) to do a submission... Give me another 4-5 months, then maybe I'll feel comfortable enough to try...

Paul Warren's picture

I read about you hurting

I read about you hurting your wrist but I didn't know you broke it. Sorry to hear that Dave. I assume you are still able to get a Heineken raised with the other hand? LOL

Dave Magaro's picture

You can put me in a body

You can put me in a body cast and I'll find a way to open and drink Heineken....LOL! What sucks about it is it's my left wrist. So, I can't get it turned enough to play. So, I learned how to play with my hand over top of the neck. We had band practice last night and it went pretty well. I busted my ass but have 38 songs pretty much down playing like that. The boys about pissed themselves when I played "Slow Ride" by Foghat, and "Run to The Hills" by Maiden. Playing like that to hot dog it a little is one thing. But, having to play three sets like that is extremely difficult. I had to go over the songs and bassically relearn everything with my left hand. We have a gig Saturday so it should be interesting.

Dave

Paul Warren's picture

I was kind of hoping for a

I was kind of hoping for a few more too. I love hearing what others play. It gives me inspiration to try different things myself.

Hazz's picture

I have had this loaded up a

I have had this loaded up a couple times and did record but never finished it. Soon as I get it done I'll post up.

Hazz

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Carburetors man!! That's what life is all about."
Musicians Collaboration Studio

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"Carburetors man!! That's what life is all about."
Musicians Collaboration Studio

Paul Warren's picture

Sounds great Hazz. Looking

Sounds great Hazz. Looking forward to hearing your take on this one.

Hazz's picture

Really, I will get something

Really, I will get something recorded for this .... hmmmmm

I have two songs to finish up and then will toss this one into the sequencer and see what I got.

Hazz

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Carburetors man!! That's what life is all about."
Musicians Collaboration Studio

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Carburetors man!! That's what life is all about."
Musicians Collaboration Studio

Paul Warren's picture

I always look forward to

I always look forward to your take on these tracks. You usually surprise me with something I would never have thought of doing. Hope you can post one soon Hazz.

ok i finally got a little time......

and did a quick take on this.....i tried over and over to come up with something nice with some cool walks and what not....and nothing sounded fine to me.....so finally i just fired it up and did a simple take with old fashioned dependable root notes.....maybe i will go back and do it over again......but here is what i got so far...

Greg's DS Jam Mix

------------------------------------------
Greg
Http://www.myspace.com/kybassmaniac
Http://www.youtube.com/kybassmaniac

*and it harm none,do what thou will*

------------------------------------------
Greg
http://www.youtube.com/user/BroknDreamsBand
Http://www.facebook.com/brokendreamsband
http://www.reverbnation.com/brokendreamsband
*and it harm none,do what thou will*

Paul Warren's picture

Hey Greg. Thanks for posting

Hey Greg. Thanks for posting this. I listened last night. Anyone who doesn't realize root notes are appropriate for some music should listen to this. Guitars like this need to be heard so it's important for the bassist to play something that doesn't distract from them. Your line is perfect for the situation. I'm definately going to try this myself. It'll be good practice for laying back a bit. Very nice.

thanks paul....

i kept trying to do more but to my ears i kept thinking i was taking too much away form the guitars. my usual approach to a bass line is just that....listen to what the guitars and vocals are doing....and try to figure out what is needed to fill the gap between them and the drums.

------------------------------------------
Greg
Http://www.myspace.com/kybassmaniac
Http://www.youtube.com/kybassmaniac

*and it harm none,do what thou will*

------------------------------------------
Greg
http://www.youtube.com/user/BroknDreamsBand
Http://www.facebook.com/brokendreamsband
http://www.reverbnation.com/brokendreamsband
*and it harm none,do what thou will*

Dave Magaro's picture

I'll get to this Greg I

I'll get to this Greg I promise. I have to stop at Radio Shack... moved things around and now the speaker wires are too short to reach the tower.

Dave