New Recording
I got the Band in a Box 2007 upgrade just before Christmas. It has some nice new features such as RealDrums. This is a technology that will synchronise an audio drum track with the synth tracks normally generated by BiaB. I must say RealDrums are a cool addition.
Here is a recording of a computer generated song, whimsically titled 'Wake Her Up', with a RealDrums track and yours truly doing his best to create and hold a groove on bass. It's a Dance number with a kind of hip hop drum style. I kind of like it even though it's not my favorite style.
I'm interested in any comments on the quality of the drum track, how it works with synth instruments and any input on the bass line (did I carry it off Ok?).
If you are interested I recorded the bass with BiaB and output it as a wav audio file. Then I output each track from BiaB as a wav file. All tracks were imported to Audacity for EQ and FX and a final mix. I noticed afterwards that BiaB doesn't stop the drum track with a midi rest command so the drums continue a bit after the end. I can fix that up in Audacity but it seems to add a realistic touch as it sounds like the drummer flubbed the ending. LOL
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Few things, when the organ
Few things, when the organ kicks in I would drop the bass just a tad and bring the organ up a hair. You might also consider playing around with trying to add some "space". Maybe pan the bass off to the left, say 20% to 30%, keep the drums centered and change up the rest of the instruments. Some to the left and some to the right.
Other then that everything seems to fit, drums and bass sound good. It does end abruptly but perhaps you could add a fast walk in the higher register on the bass in the outro. Ya do not need it but just an idea.
Nice job.
HAZ
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Musicians Collabaration Studio / a place for musicians to get to gether and create music on-line
Thanks for the comments and
Thanks for the comments and suggestions Haz. I had considered panning the bass opposite the guitar but strangely, audacity wouldn't do it, even though the bass was on a stereo track. Weird!
Do you use Audacity? I don't know how to reduce the volume for just a section of a track. I assume I would mark the section first then give it instructions to raise or lower the volume. How I get syncronous changes across tracks though I don't know. Something to work on I guess, unless you know?
As to the outro, it's supposed to end on a crash or shot for all instruments. Unfortunately BiaB doesn't, or can't, end the RealDrums on a midi command. I'll go back and silence the drums after the last note in Audacity.
Anyhow, I was pretty happy with the overall result. For a rank amateur I don't think I did too bad. :^)
I am not familiar with
I am not familiar with Audacity but most DAWs allow you to assign envelopes for panning, volume and a few other options. If it does have an envelope option you would have to split the track where you want the envelope to start and split it again where you want it to end. Then you would create a clip envelope and it should allow you to change the volume in just that clip without affecting the rest of the track.
If it does allow you to do that then the best place to split the track would be at a point in the wave form (you would have to zoom in to see it) where there is no sound or right as the wave hits bottom and starts to rise. If you do it just right there will be no problems. If you are off just a tad then you will get a pop or click in the track and would then need to mess with some cross fading. It might sound like a lot but once you know how to do it it is a fairly easy procedure.
Maybe someone that has used Audacity will chime in but since this was something yer doin' for fun (not going on a CD) then it sounds fine as is. It may be a good song to use to find out what Audacity will allow ya to do.
HAZ
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Musicians Collabaration Studio / a place for musicians to get to gether and create music on-line
I just took a look at
I just took a look at Audacity. To do what I described earlier you may not have to split the track. I did not get into it to much but if you look up "Envelope" in the help file under "Other" it will show you how to do what I described before. Looks to be fairly simple.
HAZ
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Musicians Collabaration Studio / a place for musicians to get to gether and create music on-line
Will do. Thanks Haz.
Will do. Thanks Haz.
Tutorial
There are some sites that have tutorials for Audacity. I can't remember then off hand, but you can probably find them if you look hard enough. I seem to remember something when I glanced at a tutorial about this very thing.
I liked the track a lot. If it was my track, I'd probably try to get a little snappier attack on bass, but since it is not my track, I'll shut up.
BoH
Thanks for the comments Bo.
Thanks for the comments Bo. I'll definately try to find a tutorial on Audacity. I'm sure it'll do everything I want, I just have to learn to use it properly.
I'd love to get a snappier attack going but I'm not quite sure how. I tried a number of EQ tricks but nothing worked. I did add some compression and that helped a bit. I can't slap worth a damn so that won't help. Any ideas?
You could play with
You could play with compression setting or;
Play right over the p/up and use a hair more power to yer pluck and depending on the feel ya want either do it on all the notes, just the upbeat or the down beat.
You can also play closer to the bridge which will give a bit more attack but it will also affect the tone (make it brighter).
HAZ
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Musicians Collabaration Studio / a place for musicians to get to gether and create music on-line
I was using my Fender P-Lyte
I was using my Fender P-Lyte for the recording and I was playing over the neck (P) pup. I had mostly the neck pup selected and very little treble. I also had my SansAmp with a bass heavy setting, very little drive or presence. That's probably what I did wrong. I need to get used to brighter settings. I think I lean toward darker settings to hide finger noise. Maybe I should practice better articulation rather than hide it with EQ. LOL
Try increasing the mids
Try increasing the mids rather then the treble and turn the drive up and leave the presence down. You will get more attack and still cover up some of the finger noise. ;^) Plus you can always add presence when you do a final mix.
HAZ
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Musicians Collabaration Studio / a place for musicians to get to gether and create music on-line
I like finger noise and a
I like finger noise and a lot more fret noise than most people can stand. But I'm a freak that way. :)
Wheat
I think the word "attack"
I think the word "attack" was wrong. I didn't mean that, sorry.
I think I'm thinking more how the notes trailed off..."DECAY", that's the word I'm looking for. Anyway, a short decay would have been what I would have done along with a nice, crisp attack. But that's just me, your work on this track is great.
Apologies, my friend.
BoH
Panning can help open up a
Panning can help open up a track a lot. So can a touch of compression and (just a touch) of reverb on the final track. This tends to really make quieter drum parts come out. I don't think you have a problem with that here, but you might like it if you try it.
As for panning the bass (and this is general advice, not specific to this track), if there's only one, I like it dead center, with the drums. But 20% pans on other things, right and left, can really help. In fact, you can experiment with different pan settings, from 10%-25% or so, and see how it helps/hurts. You want to create the illusion of space--as if a band were really there. So you need a balance in the L and R. Though you generally want drums, bass, and the main melody very close to the center (if not dead center).
But you can move it around through the track. If two instruments share the melody at some point, you can pan them right and left while they share it. Then, if it reverts to one, you can put that one back in the middle. Possibilities are endless, of course.
Wheat
I enjoyed it, Paul. And it
I enjoyed it, Paul. And it sounds pretty good to me. The line you play fits nicely and I can hear it cleanly in the mix. I played along with it a few times to get a better feel for it and then started goofing with some solo lines over the top of it (A natural minor works pretty well over most of it and can be made to fit in the few places where it isn't a 100% match).
The drum flub at the end just makes it sound more natural. The drums sound very real, including the fills. The style reminds me a bit of some more recent Carlos Santana stuff--slightly Latin in vibe. I think you carry off the bass part well.
I think it would be fun to overdub a bass playing along with (or instead of?) the synth that carries the main melody.
When you say this is "synth generated," what exactly do you mean? Do you just choose a style and a chord progression? Do you write the melody line as well? I've messed with BIAB before, but it's been a million years. It seems like a great practice tool. Maybe I should nab a copy.
Thanks for sharing your track. I hope you get some valuable feedback on it and I really look forward to hearing more from you and from everyone else.
Cheers,
Wheat
Thanks Wheat. That drum
Thanks Wheat. That drum style is just slightly Latin in flavor isn't it? A bass solo over the tune would be cool, I'll have to give it a try myself.
The song is a Dance.sty style demo included with the BiaB megaPak. The chord progression and melody are most likely generated by BiaB originally. There is a melody maker feature that is designed to do this for any chosen style. It's a great tool. After the song is generated it's possible someone tweaked it a little to get it just right. Then of course I changed some of the instruments around and added my own bassline completely different from the original.
When I say synth generated I'm referring to the instruments themselves. BiaB sends midi commands to the current midi device and that midi device synthesises the sounds according to the midi instructions. In this case the sounds were produced by the Roland Virtual Sound Canvas (DXi version).
I personally think BiaB is a great tool. Not only is it fantastic for practice but it's a great tool for songwriting. You can have BiaB generate chord progressions in any style and you just keep listening until you hear something you like. Then use it as a framework. I highly recommend it.
An idea
I don't know if anyone has time for it, but it might be fun if plugged a chord progression into it and posted the (bass-less) results as an mp3. Then we could all download a copy, add a bass line, and upload the results. Any of you guys think that would be fun? I can provide space for hosting the files.
Wheat
Yeah!
I'd love to have a go at it, Wheat. Sounds like good times!
BoH
Cool, it looks like you,
Cool, it looks like you, Haz, Paul and I are all down. Any of you lurkers/occasional posters in on it? Come one, come all.
Wheat
Can I play too?
Can I play too? Pleeeeeease?!!
I was tellin' Paul that his would be a great tune for a collab deal if he wanted but this sounds like a good way to show how different styles are from player to player even if they play the same style of music.
HAZ
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Musicians Collabaration Studio / a place for musicians to get to gether and create music on-line
Yeah. That's what I think
Yeah. That's what I think will be fun. We can each take a crack at a the progression, lay down a line that we like. And, if we like, we can discuss why we did what we did. Not as a competition, but as a learning experience.
Wheat
Agreed. I think we can all
Agreed. I think we can all learn a lot from the experience.
Strangely enough I've been
Strangely enough I've been thinking the same thing myself. I think it would be great to hear how different bassists do the same tune. We'd need to decide on a genre that has the widest interest. I could easily cook up a BiaB track with the RealDrums drum track.
Then all we'd have to do is record our bass lines and I can do a final mix of each bass line using Audacity. Shall we try it?
I can work with blues, rock, reggae, disco/dance, pop, not too good on funk or jazz. I'd vote for something in the dance/disco/reggae genre. Any one else?
I'm more a rock and funk
I'm more a rock and funk guy, but I'll take a crack at anything. Whatever style we don't do this time, we'll do next time.
Wheat
I should add that, although
I should add that, although the melody instruments will be midi synths in the original version there's nothing to stop us getting real instrumental tracks later on if we want. I'm sure Haz won't mind getting some collaborators to help. I can volunteer to keep all the original tracks safe so we can remix any time. Should be a fun project.
I think what Wheat was
I think what Wheat was talking about (I know I was) is the current tune you just did. Would be fun to work with it.
HAZ
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Musicians Collabaration Studio / a place for musicians to get to gether and create music on-line
That one or a brand new one.
That one or a brand new one. It all sounds fun to me. Paul has BIAB, so he can kick it off. Paul, if you'll send me an mp3 (wheat at wheatdesign dot com) of the track or a new progression, sans bass, I'll post it here at BP.com and post a link so everyone can download it and add their part(s).
Wheat
I think a brand new song is
I think a brand new song is a better idea right now. First, I've already worked the previous one to death and second, I'd like a complete original. The basic track here is actually included with the BiaB MegaPak so, while I've changed it around somewhat it's still not entirely original.
Now there's no reason we couldn't play around with this one as a separate project at another time. Or, if you like, I could e-mail you the instrumental tracks as zipped wav's and you could add your own bass track.
True. I've got guitars at
True. I've got guitars at my disposal, as well as various precussion instruments and syths. Thanks for your willingness to do the leg work on this. I think it will be fun.
Wheat